Recent Widgets


Register for DashboardWidgets

Recent Forums Posts

Partners


iCompositions

MacDesktops.net

RSS Showcase
RSS Comments
RSS Forums

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Posted in: Lounge

Intel vs AMD

Author Message
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 - 1:04 pm    Post subject: Intel vs AMD Reply with quote

Ok, so I really don't know much about Intel, PowerPC, AMD.

Apple said that it would switch to Intel on the grounds of:

1) Performance per watt
2) Intel people and Apple people have pleasantly discovered they can get along.

Or at least that's what I got from the WWDC video.

Fine, at least it's better than PowerPC in performance per watt. But what about AMD?

One source, http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050603/, seems to suggest that AMD may have better performance per watt, and even better performance, at least when only one application is running. (Multiple applications -> Intel is better.)

And, according to a recent NYTimes article, it seems that Intel is kind of a bully. (Although, I suppose another way of putting it is that AMD is the bullied, or even kind of whiny.)

I'm just curious why Apple chose Intel, specifically, and not AMD, if indeed AMD has better performance per watt and power consumption. Because if AMD + Apple is better than Intel + Apple, then AMD + Apple would be significantly better than Intel + Windows, which is the majority.

So, what makes Intel Apple's choice, over AMD?
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
gnome
Administrator


Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 145

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 - 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone pointed out that AMD is probably not a large enough company yet to handle a huge client like Apple. Or perhaps they were worried about people thinking AMD stood for "Apple Mac Desktops." (Yup, pretty unlikely.) I have no idea.
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
pm
Administrator


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 398

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 - 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think company size is an issue. After all, AMD sells processors to the likes of HP, Lenovo, and many other companies.

Others have said it has more to do with Intel's product roadmap. Intel's is, in some way, better than those of both IBM/Freescale and AMD.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
EricNau



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 92
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 - 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Apple chose Intel just because more people have heard of Intel compared to AMD. Let's face it, most people don't look into the products, they just hear a brand and assume it's good. Therefore apple is trying to appeal to the majority of people...Maybe, it's just a guess.
Anyways I'll trust that Apple did a lot of research, and picked the right one.
-Eric
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
mattf
Server Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 45

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 - 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMD processors have historically been hailed as an "inexpensive" processor, combining speed with value pricing. This is generally consistent with lower end processors, the kind that one would find in the likes of an eMachine or a cheap HP computer. Once one is in the higher end of processor performance, AMD seems to get tuckered out and Intel takes the edge with performance and value. Apple has never been known as a "cheap" computer manufacturer, they want high end, bleeding edge chips in their computers. This is why I believe that Intel won over AMD, they've got a much better edge in speed, value, and ever the requirement for Apple, a recognized brand name of their very own.

-m
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN MessengerWidgets
pm
Administrator


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 398

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 - 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a nice article on Ars Technica about the possible real reason behind the switch. It doesn't necessarily discuss AMD but the article does sort of explain Apple's choice.

http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050710.ars

If you're trying to punish IBM for being unable to do what no one could do anyway, you take your business to their biggest competitor in the field.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Thanks for the link, Powermac. That was quite interesting.

I don't really know which is better on performance, Intel or AMD, but if my source is legitimate, (not sure) then AMD would be the choice for single apps...which I assume fits with people who work out of major audio/video apps and such, assuming that they don't open a bunch of apps at once (no Logic, Photoshop, and video at the same time?).

But it does seem probable that there is somewhat of a "personal" cause or set of causes for the switch to Intel. That bit on Apple being quite demanding of IBM is believable. But at the same time, PowerPC is still slow, after all.

It makes sense, I suppose, from a name side too. Intel is definitely the major player out there. Discounts means selling cheaper products, I hope. Working with a smaller company to get slightly better(if that's true) products that are slightly more expensive compared to if they worked with Intel does not seem like it would tip the scale.

But on the name part...before I had any interest in any of this, I'd see ads for computers advertising Intel inside or AMD inside, and the logos always looked kind of similar...as if they were both from the same people. I wonder if anyone else got that mistaken vibe.

As long as Mac OS is superior to Windows, it seems to me that there is some potential for Apple to gain popularity...I'd like to see the day when Windows is the minority and Apple is the majority! But for that they definitely need to get the numbers up, because even people that don't look deep into the products can compare numbers.
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be the added bonus of the drama, too I suppose. Lol.

Who can resist the story? Two companies fighting one another turned friendly to offer customers better products? Schweet!

Maybe PSYCHOLOGICAL! Run for your lives!
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
pm
Administrator


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 398

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BagOfHammers wrote:
I don't really know which is better on performance, Intel or AMD, but if my source is legitimate, (not sure) then AMD would be the choice for single apps...which I assume fits with people who work out of major audio/video apps and such, assuming that they don't open a bunch of apps at once (no Logic, Photoshop, and video at the same time?).


I've dabbled in video editing as a hobby and I can tell you that I always had Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, and at least one other helper app open when editing. That's at least two processor-intensive apps always open for entry-level projects. Think about how many different processes a production studio would require...

Also, for web development, I always have Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Transmit, and CocoaMySQL open with BBEdit thrown in there every once in a while. I may be a super-multitasker but I'd assume that other web developers use a similar setup (and web designers would always have a processor-intensive graphics program open).
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. That would make Intel an obvious choice then, huh?

Didn't realize that. Thanks.
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
mattf
Server Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 45

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intel's hyper threading is a huge advantage for video editing professionals and is just one of many advantages Intel has over AMD. The significant price cuts as mentioned in the Ars Technica article is also yet another reason to be an all-Intel shop. When I'm doing graphic design, I have both a PC and a Mac to do what I need to do. The Mac has the easy to use interface that I want when I design and allows me to get my job done faster, but then when I need to get something ready for press (lots of rendering and data processing), the x86 platform flat out wins even on a same spec machine. This is why RIP's mainly run under Windows or the x86 architecture, PowerPC just can't RIP PS files fast enough for printers.

-m
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN MessengerWidgets
EricNau



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 92
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 - 3:54 pm    Post subject: Hyper Threading Reply with quote

I could be wrong (as I guess I am). But I thought Hyper Threading was just a way into tricking the computer that it has 2 processors when it really only has one. Therefore the computer can split up jobs easier, but it can still only go as fast as that one processoer can take it, hyper threading or not.
Could someone explain to my what Hyper Threading really is, because I thought it was mainly a marketing trick just to get people to run out a buy new computers.

Also...What do you think will be in a Intel Mac...A Pentium 4 or a Itanium 2...or something else?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 - 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I saw somewhere that it was P4. Don't know though. I'd like a nice surprise....
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
pm
Administrator


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 398

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 - 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Powermac the developers leased has a P4. However, that doesn't necessarily mean the ones they ship next year will be P4s.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Widgets
BagOfHammers



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 167
Location: under the lucky hippo tree

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 - 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. It will start from the bottom and move up though, so does that mean the emac or ibook or what?

Whatever it is, it better be the best they can! But I sure would like a nice surprise....

--------------------------------
So I'm here in the Lounge, sitting on the Golden Sofa...

Where are you? Oh, there you are, gazing at the stars and counting the destinies of cosmos unfolding so majestically.
View user's profile Send private message Widgets
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.

 
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group